Michael Canty, head of Revenue Operations, explains how far HubSpot takes an early-stage company and the point where adding Contractbook scales the business to do more.
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Michael Canty - Head of Revenue Operations @ Contractbook, former Bostonian, now living in the backwoods of Connecticut....but I still pronounce my R's and "AH" :)
https://www.linkedin.com/in/mecanty91/
You can see more and purchase Contractbook on the HubDo Marketplace
Direct Transcription of Podcast
Pete
Greetings everyone a very warm welcome to another edition of the HubDo podcast. This is where we talk with software vendors, subject matter specialists, and end users who share real stories of how to do more on HubSpot. I'm your host, Pete Nicholls. I'm coming to you from Copenhagen in Denmark, and I'm joined today by Michael Canty, Michael, very good day to you. How are you doing?
Michael
I mean, I make a, I made a rule for myself a long time ago, no complaints on Fridays. So, uh, I'm doing really, really good. I'm really, uh, really excited to be here, really excited for the weekend and, um, you know, excited to dive into HubSpot and Contractbook and, and how we get value from both of those tools.
Pete
For our listeners, if you haven't yet heard of Michael Canty, Michael is the head of revenue operations at Contractbook. And, uh, former Bostonian is, uh, now living in the backwaters of Connecticut. Now my accent follows me, uh, wherever I go from Australia originally, Michael, how's your Bostonian accent doing in Connecticut?
Michael
It's noticeable. Uh, it takes very little to figure out where I'm from. You. You talk to me for about five or 10 minutes down here, and I'm, I'm sort of like a novelty, I think, to, um, some of my friends and, and family that I've, uh, that I'm around now, down here. But yeah, I went from one side of the spectrum to the other, you know, from, from downtown Boston, um, you know, to south Boston now, and then, uh, all the way down to Connecticut, to a town of 3000 people. So we're in a, we're in a whole different world down.
Pete
I have to ask you, actually, cuz I've gotta be in Boston in a couple of weeks' time. We're just, uh, as of uh, time of recording, we're coming up to the HubSpot inbound event. So, uh, is that, uh, is that gonna drag you back to Boston?
Michael
I'm gonna see if I can get up there for it. It's actually one of my favorites, um, my favorite local events when I was in Boston of the year. And like, obviously it's, it's a big one. I'm uh, I'm hoping to get up there this year, but we got a wedding in the works. We have, um, some traveling coming up. So, uh, time permitting, we will we'll get there.
Pete
Well, fingers crossed. I may, may uh, see you there. I hope so for today. Uh, I'll just say, uh, Contractbook, I'm also delighted to say, uh, Contractbook is on the HubDo Marketplace because we use that as a place to help more people do more on HubSpot. And so the combination of Contractbook and HubSpot we've picked the topic for today of scaling sales agreements with Contractbook and HubSpot.
So let's start with the first question, which is what types of customers are an ideal fit for Contractbook, and maybe who isn't a fit.
Michael
Yeah, I think, you know, I mean, ideally, our goal is one day, everybody is the perfect fit for Contractbook and we can, we can help everybody out there. But I think right now, right, our primary focus is on those, like those growing and scaling SAS businesses. Right. So people who are in the 51 to 250, um, you know, employee count range, obviously like in software, Because what we've seen, what we tend to see with a lot of those organizations is that there's like a high volume of sales contracts that are going out, right? Like on the month to month, day to day, as that sales team grows, as they continue to have a higher output, um, of sales month over month, right?
That, that friction in the process tends to grow most for those organizations. And, and that's where we put our focus, cuz we think, you know, at least for today, that's where we can help drive the most amount of impact for, for the businesses we work with.
Pete
And I guess you would come across the companies that are using a whole range of, um, maybe some antiquated tools as well of, uh, some folks still, uh, on PDFs and, uh, and word and all those good things.
Michael
Yeah. And, um, it's so funny, right? Cuz I think like, you know if we showed you like a cell phone from 30 years ago and then like held it side by side with your phone now, you and asked you to pick right, obviously, take you, you take you, your newer generation one and yeah, what we find is that um, yeah, people are still on, on like the old stalwarts of the industry, right?
Like the DocuSign, the Microsoft words on they're storing things in like digital, what, what we call like a digital file cabinet, right? Like they're storing things in Box and it's not just that those systems are disjointed, but there are things that are like important things that are lost, um, in, in managing that way. Right. And, and part of it is around like capturing, like all the available data like that you can, within those contracts, other, you know, other parts of it are being able to hook it up, um, more successfully and more effectively, and, and more simply right into, into systems like HubSpot and, and other um, you know, other available platforms within your stack. And I think, um, but it's a big mindset shift, right? Like it's not, um, it's not something that, that you can just, you know, push a button on and all of a sudden, like, it's just like, I'm clear why it's the better way to manage it.
Pete
It's a big jump potentially. And, I've heard it said that particularly the legal folks who just love Microsoft word and love redlining, a Microsoft word, and they'll move to digital documents if you can pry it out of their cold dead hands. Um, when you look at the jump to adopt a system like Contractbook, what are the most common misconceptions or misunderstood features or mistakes that people make? So if we can clear some of that up.
Michael
Yeah. I think like one of them, like one of the biggest mistakes I would say is that like, you need to go cold Turkey on like how you've done things. Right. Like, and I think, you know, the important thing, like when transitioning from like, you know, like one set of technology, like that's maybe like a legacy set to something that's newer to the market and, and like, this is my operations brain here, like working. It's not like a cold Turkey exercise, right? Like you don't just go from having to negotiate everything in word to suddenly being like, we're never gonna look at Microsoft word again. Right. But there's, there are parts of that process you can start with.
Right. There's, there are things that are simple and there are things that are easy to automate. There are things that make sense to do digitally. Um, and there's, there are portions of your workflow that you can offload. Right? Like, and I think like when I think about working with like a legal team, right? Yeah, you're right. They, they wanna hold on to Word and they want us to pry the keyboard from their cold dead hands. And we don't necessarily wanna do that but I think some of the places we wanna start is by saying, well, listen for the standard sales agreements that require no changes in are very systematic, right very repetitive. Let's get that outta your wheelhouse. Like you don't need to review like that every time it goes out, like, what we need to do is create the confidence that every time that contract goes out digitally, that it has the right language in it, that it protects the business and the ways that are meaningful to you and, and that are part of your, your job to do. And I think. You know, that's the place to start. Like we can grow over time. We hope to be here for a long time. Right. And I think, you know, we can start somewhere and, and grow into it. And it also helps us because the more we understand about your needs and the more we understand about your requirements, the better we can drive product direction to, to help meet those needs.
I don't, I don't think we ever claim to be the master of, um, you know, knowing every, every nook and cranny that somebody wants to use, but, you know, we're, we're here to make it work for, for the people that do business with us.
Pete
It sounds like, uh, it's a common misconception that they've gotta go all in on everything. Whereas you can slice off parts of the existing contract flow, streamline it, and then deal with really thorny more bespoke things.
Michael
Exactly. And I think, you know, that goes for pretty much any system you're gonna implement as well. Right. Even if we were doing like, even if you were, were helping to do like implementation for a new HubSpot customer, helping them to implement a new system connected to HubSpot, it's very rare that you ever go from the starting gates to full value, you know, on the first iteration of it, right. It's usually, um, a committed investment, right? When, when, when you purchase something, that you're looking to drive more business value for you, it's, it's a commitment. It's, it's not like a, Hey, if we don't get all, all the bells and whistles ringing in, you know, A month, then it's a failure, right? Like you need to think, or of it as an iterative process that, that you build towards and ultimately hopefully over time achieve.
Pete
Yeah. So really like gliding, you're not expecting people to just run up to Yosemite and jump off the Half dome. It's, uh, like there's a grassy knoll or something you can run down first.
Michael
Start somewhere safe. We can get to the dangerous stuff later.
Pete
The combination of the two Michael, because HubSpot has a lot of capability. So in the sales process, particularly whether it's the SAS vendors or, or others that at some point there's some document signing required. So can you clear up for listeners how far generally can HubSpot itself go in this direction really where it's a no-brainer, you've got to add the likes of Contractbook.
Michael
I think that, in like first of HubSpot, over the years, and as a Bostonian, like, it always keeps like, just like this little piece of my heart cause it's just like one of the best Boston success stories on the planet. Um, I actually spent some time working with Mike Volpe view, used to be the CMO over there and he was wonderful. So like, I always have a soft spot for HubSpot. And I think they've done a great job of enabling like those, those teams that are coming out of the gates, right? Like you're, you're young, you're scrappy. You're trying to get the business up and running and like, you need something that can both like manage the opportunity, generate the quote and like get it out and even collect payment on it. And I think for a lot of businesses, you know, very early on when you're in sort of like that, that bootstrap mode it's um, it's a great way to do it. And then I think the complexity comes as, as that grows and your operational needs grow. Right. And, and like, there's, there's a big difference between being able to issue a quote as that has linked out terms and like can take you to something that's pretty static to look at.
Um, and then having the ability to you know, manage, manage the templates with the correct language support, multiple things that may start to happen in a sales process. I think one thing we usually see as sales complexity grows is, um, everybody's three-letter acronym and NDA, right? I need an NDA, I need an NDA. I need an NDA. Right. And like, that's where I see HubSpot, like the sort of like the line on it starting to come is, you know, it's great at getting out the quote. It's great at even getting some initial agreements signed, but once you start introducing some complexity to the contracting and complexity to the sales process. You're sort of left wanting for a bit better way to manage it.
Pete
Yep. And that, uh, that flow, I guess, as well as how it goes from person to person, if there are approvals and, and so forth. Uh, I know that can be tricky, to set up in HubSpot.
Michael
Exactly. And I think, you know, listen, like, um, the, the thing I try to always, like, I like, especially like for me as an operations person, is like, I very much maintain that like you take a solution as far, um, as the solution will allow you to go, but like not, there are no silver bullets in this world, right? Like, if HubSpot was the silver bullet, for all your business, and operations needs there wouldn't be an ecosystem around it. Right. And, and I think, you know, part of this is, is pushing the functionality of HubSpot to its, to its breaking point. And then like that's where you see the gaps, right? Like that's, and that's not a bad thing. Right? Like pushing something as far as it can go. And then seeing, you know, Hey, here's where it's, here's where it's not able to deliver the value we need. Like that's where successful customers come from, in my opinion, right?
The most successful customer is the one who comes to you and, and knows where they need to cover and like knows what's most important to them to cover and, and is looking for a solution that can, that can cover the critical things for them. Right. And, and I think that's the ideal, right? In a lot of ways.
Pete
Yeah, you squeeze everything that you can out of what you have with the HubSpot platform, but then to recognize, uh, don't break you back, trying to make it, do something beyond what it's built for. So I'd like to get into some real examples. I know this could be a tricky area when you start talking about contracts and so forth, but if possible, Michael, can you give us some real examples of a customer situation or customer stories where ideally HubSpot and Contractbook together have just made the situation a whole lot better?
What can you share with us?
Michael
Yeah, I think so like, um, like a couple of the use cases that come off the bat immediately. Right. And, and like one, like my, again, I'm gonna, I'm gonna air my operations use case first, and then we can sort of talk about the sale, the sales use case as well, but I think they go hand in hand, right?
Like my biggest partner in this organization, um, is our go-to-market members and one of the biggest things that we use to drive decisions right, and understand, um, how well we're doing is like overall performance, right? We look at how much revenue we've generated. We look at, you know, like the discounting that was done, we try to understand where we're having success and where we're meeting friction.
Um, but one of the things that I've always found myself doing prior to joining Contractbook. And, and I think some of our customers and probably some of yours as well can attest to this is the classic, um, post signature message to a sales rep, which. Please go update your HubSpot deal. Um, that's not what you want to be spending time on as a business, right?
Like if I have eight hours in a day, I don't wanna be spending two of it chasing down contracts and, and, and making sure that HubSpot is reflective of the reality that's within those. So the ability to connect HubSpot directly to the contract and when things change within that contract, right? Because a lot of the times the changes are happening there to be able to sync that information back in a like six in a confident way is huge. And that goes beyond just like the deal sync. Right. Is there, is there an email of like the new owner of this product? Like, say we mentioned in the contract who the team owner is, right?
We have customers. That we've worked with who say like, you know, Hey, we specify, um, who's gonna own the implementation at the company in our contract. We specify who's going to like own the like product afterward and who owns the billing. And sometimes those. Um, people don't exist in our CRM. They don't exist in our system because of the way the contract works with HubSpot, we're able to grab those emails right out, look them up within the database, identify that they don't exist, and then take the other important information like their first name, their last name, their email, their phone number, create that record associated to the right company.
That's the little things, you know, I, I think, I always say it's never the small like it's never the big things that creep up on you. The big problems are always very easy to see. It's when the little things that you need to do compound that efficiency is truly lost. Right? When you have to do lots of little things manually like that's when all of a sudden it's 4 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 12 hours a week doing something. And I think a lot of our customers get a lot of value from not having to worry about those things anymore. Not coming back to the salesperson, being like, Hey, what was the billing contact? Right. Cause now we're not collecting money where, I mean, yeah, I'll stop rambling.
But like you, I think like, I think, you know, that's, to me, one of the biggest benefits that, that I see our customers receiving hooking up with HubSpot.
Pete
So, let me unpack what you put in there, cuz I think that's a great example of where yes, you might update the HubSpot and move the deal to another stage because the contract's being signed. But uh, you pick an important point of these items that are really just annoying noise and friction for the sales rep and the business overall. You want that clean booking once it's signed to go straight through to the keeper with the people responsible for different roles that are coming out of the document going back into HubSpot where other automation can then pick up, right? Here's our, uh, invite for the kickoff call or whatever the next step might be.
Michael
Exactly. And I think like, you know, that same information that's in the contract is used to trigger quite a few other actions, right? When we create something in our billing system, we need that information. And like we, when we, when CS goes to kick off and who's leading the implementation, like that needs to be in the system, it needs to be clear what these things are. Otherwise again, we're introducing friction into the process unnecessarily and, um, you know, it's, it's never fun updating data manually. Like, I mean, we can all, I think share some kinship on that. Like nobody likes, nobody likes, manually punching things into, to HubSpot.
Pete
No. And the errors as well is like you drop one character from the email address and you don't find out till five days later. Oh, why didn't the support rep get the email? Uh, well, it wasn't copy-pasted, right? It sounds like Michael you've. Um, so you've done this at Contractbook. You've been implementing this in-house by the sound of it.
Michael
Yeah. I mean, listen, we try to drink our own champagne here, right? Like if we're gonna toast, uh, if we're gonna toast to these use cases as we should, we should drink the champagne in the glass as well. And, um, it's also, it's also a great product feedback loop internally for us, you know, too, right? As we look to figure out what do our customers need and what do our customers want? The customer who uses us the most is. It's us, right? Like we, we need to be our, our, our, the best version of our users. And I think, um, when you look at some of the things that we built over the last year, a lot of that originated internally from things we needed to do.
Like we have our in-app automation builder. Um, so like right within our application, you can like create the integration with HubSpot. You can map the fields from the deal to like your contract. You can tell it to create, create those new items like do all these different things. A lot of that came from because we sat down and we looked at it, we said, we're doing all of this. We're managing it external to the system. It's so important that our contracts match our CRM. Like we should get this in the product. Like we should, we should take the time to invest in this. And I think, you know, um, we, we continue to, to try to do that every, you know, month in month out.
Pete
yep. And on those metrics where you've been able to move the needle on, on some of these things, either saving sales rep time or smoothing the sales process, or just improving accuracy on your own implementation, or if there's any that you've had to view of where customers have done this to Michael people always need to get approval on what, what what's the business gonna tangibly get as a benefit. Uh, anything more you can share? What sort of measures?
Michael
Yeah. So I think, listen, like when we, when we approach this conversation with customers and I think, you know, even when we look at it internally, it's very much a, it's very much a time value. It's very much a time-value exercise. Right? If you look and like, again, as I mentioned earlier, like it's never, then it's never the big things that sneak up on you, it's the small things that do. Like what the average account executive is going to make as a base salary in like a market, like New York. Right. And then you factor out, you have 20 of those reps that are creating sales agreements and it's taking them one hour each time because they have to pull it up in like, you know, I don't wanna, I'm not gonna name any competitors cause I don't wanna be that guy, but they gotta pull it up in a competitor system and then they gotta sit there in Salesforce and copy over this information.
Or like this didn't pull through. Right. I gotta edit this. If 20 reps spend an hour doing that. And on average, you're paying them $120 an hour. Like, like that number adds in scales really quickly, especially in the context of the cost of like what we're traditionally asking for. Right? Like it's the ROI are there on time savings? And then again, when you expand to other departments when you're all of a sudden using it for your NDAs or you're using it for employment agreements, or you're using it for any one of these things that, that, that is time-consuming that you can now automate. That's really initially where we start to show value.
The post automation stuff is that's when we really blow the roof off. Right? Like not having to manually create billing contacts, those types of things. Like that's when you really start to hit some serious ROI.
Pete
Then it blows from the, uh, the sales reps time to all the time for all these other folks who have gotta do their little noisy piece. Uh, look, that's some great examples. Uh, so I guess just to, to recap, uh, we're saving sales reps time, we're smoothing the sales cycle and we're taking the noise out of that as well as improving the accuracy, just the systems transfer that data straight across. Really good examples and I guess with contract book HubSpot can take you so far, but as soon as it becomes, uh, or becomes a little more, uh, complex of a, of a sale beyond an NDA, single sign-off type situation, you really gotta look at a contract book type of integration to, um, do more on that HubSpot platform. Michael, uh, I'll just say, look, it's, uh, it's been, um, an absolute pleasure talking with you today. Uh, I hope to see you in Boston, what's the best way for people to connect with you? Is it, is it LinkedIn?
Michael
Come find me on LinkedIn. Um, that's the most active I am anywhere and you know, I'm always happy to chat. You can also find me if you're a member of, um, Pavilion or Rev Genius. Like you'll find me in both of those communities as well. Um, so please do reach out. I'm always happy to chat and, and learn from the community.
Pete
Fantastic. So, uh, we have your LinkedIn link ready to go into the show notes that goes with this episode as well. So, uh, just say, Michael, um, thanks so much for your time.
Michael
The pleasure was mine. Thank you for having me.
Pete
And for our listeners. Uh, you can find more information about Contractbook on HubDo Marketplace. Just go to marketplace.hubdo.com or click the link in the show notes and send us your questions so that Michael and I can answer those for you and, and help you do more.
You can see more and purchase Contractbook on the HubDo Marketplace